Hey if it’s free it’s for me. Regarding Canada and it’s healthcare – why do border towns exist with Drs that specialize in patients who cross the border from Canada? At least from my opinion, socialized medicine works great for the simple stuff, but can be problematic for complex illnesses.

The issue is what was passed in the USA is anything BUT socialized medicine. It was corporate cronyism. It won’t control costs and won’t improve our healthcare.

Other than that, I fully agree with this post. People can either whine about how life isn’t fair or they can get off their a$$ and do something about it.

We are CREATED equal, but we not equal in are ABILITIES. I know I’ll never pitch a 90 mph fastball. Should I expect society to make me equal to the professional baseball player? In many cases this means penalizing the professional player in some fashion to make them equal to me. Be it through regulations, taxes or other similar forms of control. I certainly do not expect this. Do you?

It’s obvious no in the statement I made above yet many “social justice” people expect just that in other areas in our life. How is this any different?

I do expect to be treated fairly based upon my abilities.

Ok let’s ask some logical questions.

Where does it end?
- Humans for the most part at the top of the food chain. Should we make that equal?
- Should dogs and cats be given the same human rights?
- Who is the person or group of people to determine what’s fair and what isn’t?? Who made them the ultimiate authority?

What you stated sounds nice, almost like in a fairy tail, but that’s not reality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj_0k2QqRNA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thidwick_the_Big-Hearted_Moose

There used to be a YouTube video but I can’t find it.

I believe the first Noble Truth of Buddhism is – All Life is Suffering. That goes for everyone.

Dr. Suess’ work is genius! I’ve been reading his stories to my kids and I’m seeing the stories in a whole new light.

The trouble is I've experienced two kinds of people who think like you and I do on this matter.

One kind is awful, and the other kind are the self reliant entrepreneurs (or for that matter musicians or athletes or dedicated family members caring for a sicked love one or whatever who take responsibility).

In my experience the first kind who believe as we do are far more prevalent. "Life isn't fair," they shout from their sports car as they drive through a puddle and drench the masses.

I hope I'm the second kind of person who believes in personal responsibility, and not the first. But perhaps we can never be sure about ourselves, from the inside?

Heated discussion here =) i agree that we are not entitled to anything. I think Generation Y is brought up to think otherwise (I think we were the first ever cohort to receive gold stars and ribbons for doing jack sh*t). That's why all us young'uns are pissing the working world off with our mentality of: work less earn more, learn more, and spend more!

Isn't the ultimate goal is to ensure everyone is treated fairly and same? A two tiered system makes it unfair again. The laws would create the opposite effect on their intention.

"To your last part do you have any historical examples, I am curious to see what you meant by that." Yea I'll find specific examples when I have a chance and post it to this thread.

“That’s a BIG assumption!”
Well I absolutely agree with you that current issues need to be dealt with before embarking on a crusade to fix everything else, and of course spending the tax money more efficiently. So maybe it was too big an assumption.
You are also right that it’s not because something works for one country, that it will work for another. But that I will leave to the people in charge to figure out.

To your last part do you have any historical examples, I am curious to see what you meant by that.
And yes that’d lead to a two tiered system, why is that bad though?

"But that doesn't mean that someone should "suffer" just because they are born in the wrong place."
Who exactly is suffering can you be clear on this generalization? Couldn't you say this about being born in North Korea instead of the US? What we consider "poor" in the US blows away most other countries. The stats on what the poor have in the US in mind boggling.

Read my post on Financial Samurai's site about the poor here in the US:
http://www.financialsamurai.com/2010/01/13/you-are-already-wealthy-stop-complaining/

I'm not saying someone poor in the US has it made, but they aren't starving to death, or not getting health care in emergency situations.

"We have the possibilities and the resources to provide education and healthcare, so why not? "
We do?? Look at California budget crisis, and in general the costs paid to teacher pensions. Healthcare. Medicare won't have the funding available by some estimates 2017:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28United_States%29#Financial_challenges

So where is that money that we have available? The existing entitlements are not properly funded, so the logic is add more entitlements?? If we are so gung ho about entitlements, let's fix the ones we have already first? Wouldn't that logically make sense? Instead this existing administration is hell bent, to hell or high water, this existing heath care bill will get past.

"Because someone else has to pay a bit more taxes?"
A bit more?? Ah the top 10% of income producers pay 70% in all taxes.

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

That's just federal, that's not state, local and any consumption taxes (which rich usually pay more)

"We'll just assume here that the taxes paid are 100% efficiently spent on stuff that needs it, for convenience sake."
That's a BIG assumption! So you are saying the government is more efficient than a person or businesses? Can you honestly state that with a straight face? I don't have exact stats but I have seen things like for every $1.00 taxed they get $0.50 out. The government has never been efficient.

"You bring up (practically) free health care, it works rather well in other parts of the world."
Let's use England, how is that country working out for ya? They are in even worse shape than us. France has always had much higher unemployment (not saying per heathcare per se) and Europe on the whole has had much lower GDP growth than we have. What do you think are the causes of these issues? For every action there is other reactions in order to support what you want ("free" healthcare and schooling). Also what may work with some of the countries, will they work in ours? Based upon how large and diverse a country we are, and government involvement, I'm not so sure. It’s a known fact that 1/5 of economy is based on health care. So we are going to do this grand experiment and see what happens?

"It gives poorer people a chance to have decent healthcare."
Actually history has shown (even with outside of heathcare) It overall lowers the standards. In addition, a two tiered healthcare would form.

Entitlement does not necessarily lead to mediocrity, a perfect example of that are universities in Europe versus universities in the US. It is apparently a lot easier in the US (bachelors), even though you pay huge admission fees in the US. For masters programmes the gap is a lot narrower apparently.
That doesn’ t mean it’s all perfect in Europe though, egalization and required quota for the amount of students that have to pass definitely bring the level down.

Neither extreme is good, it’s all about finding a balance that works well and this goes for pretty much everything (or so I believe).

again which is fine by me, as long as the content is truly related. Another method to help increase your Alexa ranking

http://www.financialsamurai.com/2009/11/23/tuitio…

I stopped trying to compare too much with others about 6 years ago. After you make a certain amount of money, it's kinda pointless.

Just have fun, be true to yourself, and it's all good!